Info about burning discs wii (ps2&xbox) etc..

[EspeN]

Greetings Friends,

There is a common misunderstanding here on the board regarding burning dumps. Most people recommend burning at slowest speed, and this is WRONG!

I am not an expert on this field, but I have a nice collection of 10-15 dvd burners and im pretty intressted in dvd media generally.

To make a good burning you need to things,
a dvd burner and a disc.

A dvd burner has a firmware with a reference table with media codes.
When the dvdburner identify the media it uses diffrent burn strategies for the selected speed.

Let us take an example for some bad FUJI FILM media i bought 16x.
The burner i used was a LITEON 165s

I burned a image with 16x, and did a quality scan. Decent result
I burned same image at 8x, and the quality on the disc was a lot worse
I burned same image at 6x, and it was a little better than 8x.
Same image at 4x and the disc was almost unreadable.

I burned 10 discs in this test.

If you have a good Media 16x, dont burn it at 4x, 2x or 1x.
You will probably ending up with much worse results than 8x because it dont know the burn strategy for 4x,2x,1x and just use one "standard" burn strategy for that burner/firmware.

If you have **** media, the result might be better at slower speeds though, since it will be even more **** on high speed because the media is crappy.

TAIYO YUDEN is known as one of the best media in the world, and is often recommended from me to my customers for backup dumps.

One customer had so much problems booting the games that he complained and he ended up sending me the media he used.

I ran the disc quality check and the score was AWFUL. 43/100. Coaster.

I called him and he told me he burned the disc at 2x with a pretty old burner (nec 1300)

Bottom line, slower speed is NOT equal better burn quality!

[byteworkz]

what chip do you use to test the backups? Or did you use a app on your pc?

[EspeN]

what chip do you use to test the backups? Or did you use a app on your pc?

I use APP on PC to read PI errors and burn quality.
Burn quality is only supported by lite-on/benq/plextor dvd roms.

Im speaking generally about burn quality on all consoles and standalone dvd players.

Btw, WII dont like TAIYO YUDEN TY3 -R 16x discs though burn quality is perfect, so ofcourse dye also have something to do how they play in the WII console, but im talking generally in this post.

[thebman919]

recommended burning speeds are usually half the speed of the media or burner whichever is slower

[EspeN]

recommended burning speeds are usually half the speed of the media or burner whichever is slower
Half of Media speed is a good rule!
I second that!
Because there is big chance there is a good burn strategy for "half" speed.

[EpochCT]

Any chance of a chart with media IDs and recommended burning speed? I got some Taiyo Yudens myself and wanted to know what speed is best (for say a DVR-111d). I usually just do 4x and they work perfectly though. On my PS2 that is, I don't have a Wii modchip yet.

[EspeN]

Any chance of a chart with media IDs and recommended burning speed? I got some Taiyo Yudens myself and wanted to know what speed is best (for say a DVR-111d). I usually just do 4x and they work perfectly though. On my PS2 that is, I don't have a Wii modchip yet.

That is individual for each burner and firmware.
Example, with your DVR-111d you can have diffrent results with same media and same speed with diffrent firmware, because there is change in firmware.

The guys at cdr-freaks hack lot of firmwares to change the burn strategies, to improve burn quality on certain medias.

But YUDEN -R 16x works real BAD on WII.
Also got a friend that reported same, though the burn quality is excellent.

And yes, TY is very known brand so the firmware prob have burn strategy for those discs at 4x, 8x and 16x and all will give u good result.

But if u do 2x, there is no strategy and it will just "Burn it"..
And it will be a bad burn.

[Tall King Crap]

Half of Media speed is a good rule!
I second that!
Because there is big chance there is a good burn strategy for "half" speed.

and I third that - if that makes sense ?

4x will usually suffice for me on a full size disc. And even the deep scans for quality "can" mean jack squat diddley. Before anyone flames me best check out some GameCube posts when a backup disc is 98% quality but fails to boot in a modded GameCube simply coz some burners/media suck for GameCube compatibility

Discs or media used, a good starting point IMHO would be a Ritek G05 & burnt at say 4x (half it's 8x rating - I couldn't give a toss about people trying to burn a full disc in 5mins or less, even if says it is 99% perfect quality scan it don't mean jack if it won't play in your own console or stand-alone dvd player)

Also as well as burning at say half the max media rating also burn at half your burner's max speed too - remember just coz it says 16x doesn't mean it will be a smooth quality burn at its max speed. Also when a disc is burnt at 8x or higher most burners will start at say 6x and "step up" to higher speeds as it burns, usually pausing briefly at around 700mb-1gb to burn a little faster and so on. This is one of the reasons I prefer to stick to a slower 4x or 6x burn as I have found these consistent burning speeds to provide the best results on decent media
(plus the fact that once you reach say a consistent 6x burn time, 8x is hardly any quicker. Suffice to say I usualy burn dvds at 4x or 6x if my burner allows 6x - or 8x if I am in a bit of a hurry - no faster for me, and CD's usualy are still burnt at 16x to 24x)


Apart from Ritek G05, other brands may be worth trying:

CMC range
MMC range
even Prodisc F1's may work well too

but it really depends on your burner & it's firmware
(plus the burning software used - it can be a nightmare for some people and others seem to burn with no problems from day one)

[ramborai1987]

hi guys i am using taiyo yuden tyg02 media dvd-r 8x. and my burner is 16x. now using your guys method im guessing the best burn would be at 4x? and you know the taiyo yuden 16x you have mentioned as being bad media, does this apply to the 8x ones aswell? the disks seem alot thicker and better quality though

[opnr2000]

Slower is better...it has been since 1996. No reason to change methods now, i think you should use many programs to do your tests to eliminate program bias.

[dannybII]

I periodically run PI scans on my media and I always verify my burns.
I never use anything other than Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden.
I use Taiyo Yuden 8x and Verbatim 16x media for single layer (Full Face Printable). I use Verbatim 2.4x Printable for Dual Layer discs.

I've never burned a single layer disc faster than 4x despite the fact my media and drives will allow. I've never burned 2.4 d/l verb faster than 2.4x despite the fact many people burn it quite successfully at up to 8x.

I change my drives regular if I start to see a drop in burn quality from my PI scans. Over about 18 years of burning I've had countless drives and used many brands of disc. Despite the boundaries being pushed by writers and media 4x burning with quality scores of a minimum 95% using DVDInfoPro suggest that these are still optimum speeds to burn at. I've had higher scores and very occasionally I've had lower scores, good media and low burn speed generally mean I can still rip to HD without using jitter correction or ignore read errors on my burning apps even after a few years.
The common misconception that just because a burn completes and is initially playable it must be good media and strategy are basically PONY SH..

The questions you constantly see asked on these and other forums are "What media drives etc". It's not really changed much over the years. I used Verbatim on PS1 and because they never let you down I still use them today.

Ritek G04 dye was once legendary (if a little over-rated) their recent DVD-R is not even a patch on Verb MCC media.

The problem being as well, something some people probably don't realize is the Media code is often Fake on some discs. the TY media code is touted on many discs that are simply abysmal. There are undoubtedly loads of suppliers on the net selling discs with TYG02/03 and MMC media codes. You buy this cheap crap and expect good results. It'll almost guaranteed be rip-off fake media. Because the media code is fake your drive will burn at that set strategy. May not even remotely be similar to the disc in the drive, hence poor results. Then theres degradation of cheap media..... don't even get me started there.

Ohhh, such a topic that I hate seeing come up (because it comes up so often) but I can never stop ranting on about anyway. It's a bug bear..... let it go Dan, it's not worth it mate.

[ramborai1987]

I periodically run PI scans on my media and I always verify my burns.
I never use anything other than Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden.
I use Taiyo Yuden 8x and Verbatim 16x media for single layer (Full Face Printable). I use Verbatim 2.4x Printable for Dual Layer discs.

I've never burned a single layer disc faster than 4x despite the fact my media and drives will allow. I've never burned 2.4 d/l verb faster than 2.4x despite the fact many people burn it quite successfully at up to 8x.

I change my drives regular if I start to see a drop in burn quality from my PI scans. Over about 18 years of burning I've had countless drives and used many brands of disc. Despite the boundaries being pushed by writers and media 4x burning with quality scores of a minimum 95% using DVDInfoPro suggest that these are still optimum speeds to burn at. I've had higher scores and very occasionally I've had lower scores, good media and low burn speed generally mean I can still rip to HD without using jitter correction or ignore read errors on my burning apps even after a few years.
The common misconception that just because a burn completes and is initially playable it must be good media and strategy are basically PONY SH..

The questions you constantly see asked on these and other forums are "What media drives etc". It's not really changed much over the years. I used Verbatim on PS1 and because they never let you down I still use them today.

Ritek G04 dye was once legendary (if a little over-rated) their recent DVD-R is not even a patch on Verb MCC media.

The problem being as well, something some people probably don't realize is the Media code is often Fake on some discs. the TY media code is touted on many discs that are simply abysmal. There are undoubtedly loads of suppliers on the net selling discs with TYG02/03 and MMC media codes. You buy this cheap crap and expect good results. It'll almost guaranteed be rip-off fake media. Because the media code is fake your drive will burn at that set strategy. May not even remotely be similar to the disc in the drive, hence poor results. Then theres degradation of cheap media..... don't even get me started there.

Ohhh, such a topic that I hate seeing come up (because it comes up so often) but I can never stop ranting on about anyway. It's a bug bear..... let it go Dan, it's not worth it mate.

great answer you've answered most of my questions but i was just wondering how can u check if your taiyo yuden's are real or fake? i've used a program called dvd identifier and it tells me that they are taiyo yuden's but how can you check the media code to see if its real or fake? thanks

[EpochCT]

Where did you buy them from? Reputable stores don't carry fakers, so depending on where you bought them then you could be assured.

Personally, I always buy Taiyo Yuden media myself, be it DVD-R 8x or CDs, and burn the DVDs at 4x on my 111d, no problems since ever, and Verbatim DLs. If it's not broken why fix it and everything, but I kinda wanted to know if this was the best possible. You don't go wrong with Taiyo Yudens, Verbatims and a 111d though.